[Slitthroat13]

Im new to oly ilfting ive been only training for like a month.
my coach guves me squats 4 days in a row monday-thrusday

4 sets of 8 reps with 40k(includes male bar weight), is this healthy?
what shoudl i be feeling when i do squats?
cuz today when i did them I experienced stress and soem disconforted while before i didnt. I dodnt thin i did the technique properly, can anyone help?


also i got thsi site for exercises
http://www.bodybuild...ion=&order=Name

[Dan H.]

4 sets of 8 reps with 40k(includes male bar weight), is this healthy?

Unless you're very young or very small or female, 40 kg a pretty light weight for squats, even for a beginner. So I don't think it's dangerous. I guess your coach is using a light weight to teach you correct form now.

what shoudl i be feeling when i do squats?

Arched back, chest out, torso as upright as possible, feet flat on the floor, go down all the way.

cuz today when i did them I experienced stress and soem disconforted while before i didnt. I dodnt thin i did the technique properly, can anyone help?

It's hard to help you if we can't see you (e.g. video). You have a coach - what did he say?

also i got thsi site for exercises
http://www.bodybuild...ion=&order=Name

That site is for bodybuilding, which is very different from olympic weightlifting! So don't look at that site anymore. The exercise pictures show incorrect form for weightlifting. For example, in their squat pictures, they only go to "parallel" (even in their so-called "full squat"), wherease for weightlifting you should go down all the way.

[Slitthroat13]

Unless you're very young or very small or female, 40 kg a pretty light weight for squats, even for a beginner.  So I don't think it's dangerous.  I guess your coach is using a light weight to teach you correct form now.
Arched back, chest out, torso as upright as possible, feet flat on the floor, go down all the way.
It's hard to help you if we can't see you (e.g. video).  You have a coach - what did he say?
That site is for bodybuilding, which is very different from olympic weightlifting!  So don't look at that site anymore.  The exercise pictures show incorrect form for weightlifting.  For example, in their squat pictures, they only go to "parallel" (even in their so-called "full squat"), wherease for weightlifting you should go down all the way.

By going down all the way you mean my butt should be like an inch off the floor or what?should my legs go beyond 90 degrees? my coach todl me its normal about the pain and yes sicne im new hes taking it light cuz i was in bad physical shape i lived a manily sedentary lifestyle before i got in olifting. im 6'3 (225-230) pounds

thanks man

[Dan H.]

Go down as far as you can while keeping your back arched or at least straight, and your feet flat on the floor. The more flexible you are, the lower you can go. If you can go down so that your butt ends up about three or four inches from the floor (with shoes on), that's plenty deep.

Your legs should end up pretty much completely flexed, so your knee angle should be much less than 90 degrees.

Squatting should be strenuous, in fact when you go heavy it is extremely strenuous, but it shouldn't be painful. Generally speaking, no weightlifting exercise should be painful. Pain will lead to injury. Maybe your doing something wrong, it's hard for me to say.

[Slitthroat13]

Go down as far as you can while keeping your back arched or at least straight, and your feet flat on the floor.  The more flexible you are, the lower you can go.  If you can go down so that your butt ends up about three or four inches from the floor (with shoes on), that's plenty deep.

Your legs should end up pretty much completely flexed, so your knee angle should be much less than 90 degrees.

Squatting should be strenuous, in fact when you go heavy it is extremely strenuous, but it shouldn't be painful.  Generally speaking, no weightlifting exercise should be painful.  Pain will lead to injury.  Maybe your doing something wrong, it's hard for me to say.

thansk man i did what you said and my knees dont hurt anymore.

[Judas]

Yup, squats ARE bad for the knees. You'll wreck your back doing deadlifts too. I wish any time people heard that, they'd take a good look at who's saying it. Yes, everyone should do benchpress only, because NOBODY EVER gets hurt benching... Does ANYONE here know a bench presser who HASN'T hurt a rotator cuff...? I dont.
Funny, in my gym its usually a bencher who's telling someone that squats are bad for them...

I think people should be saying that reading Hustle & Fiction, or listening to all those generic personal trainers (who NEVER squat) is bad for the knees...

[FortifiedIron]

Chandler, TJ, Wilson, GD, & Stone, MH, The effect of the squat exercise on knee stability. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 21(3), 1989.

Past studies have produced conflicting results as to the effect of squat exercises on knee stability. One hundred male and female college students were measured using a knee ligament arthrometer on nine tests of knee stability. Over an 8-wk training program, full or half squats did not consistently affect knee stability compared to non-squatting controls. To measure the effect of long-term squat training 27 male powerlifters (14 Elite or Master Class) and 28 male weightlifters (8 Elite or Master Class) were measured on the same tests. Powerlifters were significantly tighter than controls on the anterior drawer at 90 degrees of knee flexion. Both powerlifters and weightlifters were significantly tighter than controls on the quadriceps active drawer at 90 degrees of knee flexion. Data on powerlifters and weightlifters were also analyzed by years of experience and skill level. No effect of squat training on knee stability was demonstrated in any of the groups tested.
--------

ESCAMILLA, R. F. Knee biomechanics of the dynamic squat exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 33, No. 1, 2001, pp. 127-141.

Purpose: Because a strong and stable knee is paramount to an athlete's or patient's success, an understanding of knee biomechanics while performing the squat is helpful to therapists, trainers, sports medicine physicians, researchers, coaches, and athletes who are interested in closed kinetic chain exercises, knee rehabilitation, and training for sport. The purpose of this review was to examine knee biomechanics during the dynamic squat exercise.

Methods: Tibiofemoral shear and compressive forces, patellofemoral compressive force, knee muscle activity, and knee stability were reviewed and discussed relative to athletic performance, injury potential, and rehabilitation.

Results: Low to moderate posterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the posterior cruciate ligament (PCL), were generated throughout the squat for all knee flexion angles. Low anterior shear forces, restrained primarily by the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), were generated between 0 and 60[degrees] knee flexion. Patellofemoral compressive forces and tibiofemoral compressive and shear forces progressively increased as the knees flexed and decreased as the knees extended, reaching peak values near maximum knee flexion. Hence, training the squat in the functional range between 0 and 50[degrees] knee flexion may be appropriate for many knee rehabilitation patients, because knee forces were minimum in the functional range. Quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity generally increased as knee flexion increased, which supports athletes with healthy knees performing the parallel squat (thighs parallel to ground at maximum knee flexion) between 0 and 100[degrees] knee flexion. Furthermore, it was demonstrated that the parallel squat was not injurious to the healthy knee.

Conclusions: The squat was shown to be an effective exercise to employ during cruciate ligament or patellofemoral rehabilitation. For athletes with healthy knees, performing the parallel squat is recommended over the deep squat, because injury potential to the menisci and cruciate and collateral ligaments may increase with the deep squat. The squat does not compromise knee stability, and can enhance stability if performed correctly. Finally, the squat can be effective in developing hip, knee, and ankle musculature, because moderate to high quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity were produced during the squat.

[Viking]

Conclusions: The squat was shown to be an effective exercise to employ during cruciate ligament or patellofemoral rehabilitation. For athletes with healthy knees, performing the parallel squat is recommended over the deep squat, because injury potential to the menisci and cruciate and collateral ligaments may increase with the deep squat. The squat does not compromise knee stability, and can enhance stability if performed correctly. Finally, the squat can be effective in developing hip, knee, and ankle musculature, because moderate to high quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity were produced during the squat.

I wonder how many menisci and criciate ligaments injuries have occured when one is using correct form and realistic resistances.

This post has been edited by Viking: 16 March 2007 - 10:52 PM

[Judas]

And i've wondered just how many olympic weightlifters (all levels ov competitive athletes, not dabblers) have injured their knees squatting deep olympic style, when using correct form.

[raffiki]

I can't think of any knee injuries. Alexeev and Taranenko had back trouble. Dimas had shoulder surgeries. I've seen pics of elbow breaks/dislocations. Weller had to pull out of the '04 Olympics. I think it was arm or shoulder related. Can't think of any knees.

[5-8]

Dimas also had a wrist problem that required surgery before the 04 olympics didn't he?

[Cutler]

Squats are bad for you, seriously, they are. Dont do them. Ever.

[5-8]

Squats are bad for you, seriously, they are. Dont do them. Ever.

yeah, true that. Don't even get me started on deadlifts either..............

EDIT: dang Cutler, a 41" vert? What are you at now? I'm at 25" right now, I figure that I need about a 35" vert to dunk : )

This post has been edited by 5-8: 01 April 2007 - 09:38 PM

[Cutler]

yeah, true that. Don't even get me started on deadlifts either..............

EDIT: dang Cutler, a 41" vert? What are you at now? I'm at 25" right now, I figure that I need about a 35" vert to dunk : )

Nah, its not as impressive as you think, its a jump with 2-3 steps prior then a two footed jump. My best standing jump was 30.5" and with a few steps 38". I did that when I could squat less than 300lbs though We test usual way, 1 hand as high as possible, stand straight etc. I figure when I convert it 33" and 41" should fall easily, it just all depends though, only so much energy squatting 4 times a week....

[5-8]

Nah, its not as impressive as you think, its a jump with 2-3 steps prior then a two footed jump. My best standing jump was 30.5" and with a few steps 38". I did that when I could squat less than 300lbs though We test usual way, 1 hand as high as possible, stand straight etc. I figure when I convert it 33" and 41" should fall easily, it just all depends though, only so much energy squatting 4 times a week....

wow, I squat over twice my freaking bodyweight and I can't break a 25 inch vert with one step. Unlike you, I'm just not naturally explosive at all.

I'm trying to be able to dunk, that's one of my goals. with my arm up I have 30 inches between the tips of my fingers and the rim, so add about five more for my hand (I can palm the ball, so no problem there) and I should be dunking with a 35 inch vertical and some practice.

I don't play ball or anything hardly ever. I don't want to dunk really, I just want freakish jumping ability and being able to dunk is a goal that will help me get there. Plus, if I'm at someones house and they have a bball goal it would be a good way to show off. I'll be the talk of the school. A 5'8" white kid that can dunk.

What are you training for? Competitive lifting? Or for sports or something?

This post has been edited by 5-8: 08 April 2007 - 10:00 PM

[deadlift425]

Bouncing on the bottom damages the joints, not the actual depth if your flexibility allows it.