[lowside]

I had to see my orthopedic this morning for a motocross injury to my ankle. I happen to mention that it sometimes hurt of pops when I do heavy squats. He imediatly was against any kind of squating excercise ,or Olifts . Of course I let it go in one ear and out the other because I know how docs are. But could help but wonder because I am new to olifting. Is this sport really hard on knees or is it that you can injury them if done improperly. He said I will have knee problems when I get older. Hell by that time technology will be so advanced . Just wondering , I am really pumped to learn these lifts and compete. Funny thing he didnt have anything bad to say about Motocross, I just thought He was insuring job security.

[steve_XD]

they're only bad for you knees if you do them incorrectly. My oly. weightlifting coach and his lifting buddies are 50-60 years old and have been lifting for 30+ years, and none of them have any knee problems related to squatting or cleans or snatches. I say none related to weightlifting because my coach did tear his ACL, but it was from falling out of a tree. And then, after his operation, the doctor told him that his knees were in better shape than any 50-year old man he had seen.
I also have been told (by my doctor) that lifting is bad for your knees, so I researched it myself. All I could find were statements of how squats were bad. There was not one shred of evidence that I could find to prove full squats were harmful.

This post has been edited by steve_XD: 13 January 2004 - 05:18 PM

[Mike Wittmer]

To add to what Steve said, there is some evidence that partial squats are harmful. You should do full range of motion lifts. I think the key is, as you said, doing them properly. I know some national record holders (ex-record holders now) who are in their 40s and have no knee problems whatsoever. I, on the other hand, have some problems that are consistant with what one might expect for a guy who never got the hang of "meeting the bar" in the clean. High pull, dive, crash. And, motocross, like anything else, is perfectly safe, provided you don't fall or crash.

[brcarr01]

Yes, the Olifts and squats can be bad for your knees if they're done improperly. Of course, walking is bad for your knees if done improperly. The key is to develop good form, as long as your form is good you shouldn't have any problems.

[EliteBSU]

partial squats are bad, i was told that before reaching parrallel all the stress is on the knees. past parallel it transfers to the gluts and hammies, if you hit bottom with a little force you can actually feel your arse tighten.

i've hurt both knees in football, but after a little rest i got back into oly comps and my squats always went up. bad form is the main cause of pain

Elite

[dred807]

Since starting o-lifts and o-style squats, all the aches and pains are gone from my back and knees. I thought I knew how to squat until I did full oly squats (back, front, overhead). I had to drop my poundages way down, but I think my strength has gone up even though the #'s are down. Another small thing that may have helped me, the programs that the coach has had me on all have the squats after the pulling movements. I think this gives my knees and back a better warm-up. I had always heard that elevating the heels is bad, but I can honestly say that I have had zero problems so far with my adidas lifting shoes.

Dave

[brcarr01]

Actually I've experienced a similar thing. When I'm not training for an extended period of time (like a week, 2 weeks) I start to get pain in my knees. When I start training again the pain goes away very quickly.

[delldell]

Shouldn't this be a sticky by now? It has to be one of the most FAQ

[Lo Pan]

[Spartacus]

This was a decent thread about squatting and its effects on the knees.

[Fe]

About the partial squat thing...I can vouch for that. I was squatting parallel and going up quite a bit every week. I never used to squat heavy and decided it was time to do so. After about 3 months my left knee became inflamed, so inflamed it locked whenever I crouched down. Painful stuff, having to lie on the floor for sometimes hours hoping it'll straighten up.

I started doing ATF squats about three weeks ago, I can crouch down no problem now with no pain and greater mobility....getting better every day. I was taking so many anti inflammatories earlier too, but nothing really helped until I gave the ATF squats a shot.

-Eric

[drew]

I talk to a lot of oldschool bbers at my gym, and none of them have problems with their knees. Actually, it seems like the MOST common injuries are in the shoulders, not the knees. Why is it that doctors get down on squats so much but none of them say "stop doing Military Press"?

My knees were shot to hell before I started doing squats. Now they feel great.

[double0si]

I work in surgery, so I kinda' have an indside track of whose who in the area for surgeons. I would suggest seeing a doc with experience with the Olympic Lifts, even if it means driving a little ways to get to their office. You can contact the LWC for your area and ask if they know any Docs that understand the needs of Olympic lifters.

What causes injuries and what doesn't, according to medical opinion, changes almost yearly... for a while they were saying stopping at parallel causes more damage than full squats.


I have pain in my knee if I don't get my squats in regularly. And the last time I talked to my Ortho doc he just said, "Well, you know what you have to do than. *wink "


If you don't like the doctors opinion, get a second opinion. Try to get referals from a LWC or a local Oly team.

HTH

[Joe_Brown]

I've been lifting since 1965, full controlled back squats and front squats. For a time I was running and training for 10 K runs. By far the running was harder on my knees but I would like to add at 55 I am still doing full squats front and back. I had an outstanding weight lifting coach Dick Notmeyer (1984 Head Olympic Lifting Judge and coach of the Pacifica Barbell Club), knowing many of the lifters over the almost 40 years there are two categories of lifters with knee injuries:
1. Lifters that do not have good form. The feet should be pointed outward with the knees keeping in line with the direction of the feet; this will help prevent the knees from buckling over. It's okay to squat deep just don't bounce off the bottom.
2. Lifting at to young of an age (maybe less than 15 yrs. lift for form only) I know a lot of people may not believe this but ask three junior national Olympic lifting champions I know that gave up lifting at 18 and at 45 they had hip and knee replacement.
A lot of lifters in Masters Competition have had more years than I do and there legs are still like hydraulic lifts.

If it hurts stop!
Lift Safe.

Joe

[Joe_Brown]

My knees have always popped doing squats. No problems.
If it hurts stop.
Joe

[morfeuss]

hello
sorry ive not read all the replies, but what i may asy is that that you may get knee pain or may also not get it..
it all depends on how you do the movements and most of all what type of knee you have, and what conditions are your muscles in...
if you do not stretch the muscles round the knees, its not good...also if you got bad knees it will always be bad...
also when squatting you should not fall down, but its a controlled movemnet.
and you can try glucosamine to try lubricate the knee joints....

[Ed Conroy]

It took many years to debunk the weightlifting will make you muscle bound theory and it may take longer to dispel the notion that full squats are bad for the knees. Amazing how one bogus study can be latched onto by trainers and coaches and be taught as gospel to thousands of young athletes. Spreading the feet a comfortable distance, pointing the toes outward and slowly squating down fully is a totally NATURAL body movement. Full squats build muscular size and strength like no other exercize. Done correctly as part of a fitness program I think they can help a person maintain walking capability in their advanced years.

[skinny_dan]

Hmm

I know my knees haven't gotten any better since starting weightlifting, and I barely squat anything when it comes to weight.

I was told that when you full clean, you are supposed to catch the bounce. That definately is not good for the knees.

My friend/coach had knee surgery last year. His father also required knee surgery. I'm sure a lot of the guys at the gym have aches and problems with their knees.

I wish squats made my knees better

I also know that running is probably worse for the knees than squats. It is for me anyway. So effectively I'm a fucking cripple.

[knobbers]

squatting can rehab knee injuries and insure stronger healthier knees, but the process can take a long time and has to be done in an intelligent way. I have rehabed chronic patellar tendinitis through squatting but it took six months and changes in loading and exercise choice. I am now doing more volume with heavier weights in all exercises with less knee pain than in the last three years.

Rob

[Joe_Brown]

Let's face it, there are good ways to do squats and bad ways. If you red line on your best effort too frequently, it's bound to rip up something. Building up the tissue and your structure to handle the weight takes time. I think most competitive people, like ourselves, getting a little twing of pain think, " I think I'll try to work the kinks out." Darn, I think that's my problem anyway. The right thing to do is work light and let things heal. Then go heavy and mess things up. The other thing to watch for is stretching the wrong ligaments during warm up which can weaken the knees. I see guys stretching and weakening their knee ligaments all teh time on the track. You know the one where you lean back and have one leg twisted to be adjacent to your hip. They should shoot the coaches that promote that.

Joe

[knobbers]

yeah it is called the hurdlers stretch and I can't stand even watching somebody do it!

[Mountain]

My knees always hurt when i squat.

[DougieNZ]

I just do basic quad stretching before and after squatting, but what exercises/stretches do you guys reccomend for loosening up the old knees before squatting.

I always do my squats at the end of workouts as leg strength isn't a problem at the moment, so by the time it comes to squatting my knees are already totally warmed up.

I think the bad for the knees thing comes from a situation like what I did a few months ago.

I started olympic lifting, loved squatting heavy and my legs grew like weeds so I started squatting 4-5-6 times a week, thinking if a little is good, then lots must be better. Fine for the seasoned veteran but not for a beginner. Quad tendonitis began hampering me at this point.

I cut it back to 2 sessions/week for a couple of months, now I do 3 sessions and voila, no knee pain anymore. Now I am slowly building it up and eventually I'm sure I will be able to handle much more.

The problem is most people might feel pain such as this begin which is from their own over training and instead of figuring it out and remedying the problem, they label squats BAD and stop doing them, forever hating them and chastising anyone they see going near or below parallel. Then they write articles saying how bad they are and some kid reads this on the internet, accepts it as fact then tells all their friends how bad squats are.

Meanwhile, everybody gets skinnier and weaker.

just my 2c

Cheers,
Dougie

[knobbers]

good post DNZ!