[obrnpwrlftr]

I just saw a post at powerlifting watch and while most of it is B.S. this caught my attention....

"BIG owns 220 and lighter.
Westside owns 242 and heavier (Grandick is close @ 242 though)

I wonder if the training methods at each gym are geared towards the size of their average lifters. 220 and smaller lifters will have different leverages than 242 and bigger lifters."


Thoughts?


This isn't meant to turn into a BIG vs. WS thing. Just trying to see what experienced lifters thought vs. the rabble on powerlifting watch.

[MarcusWild]

I'm not sure, but that was my post. I was hoping to see some discussion on it. Thanks for bringing discussion on it to here.

[obrnpwrlftr]

It was a good observation that got lost in all of the other "crap" there. It raises some good points and I think it's worth discussing.

[Zane G]

i personally think the BIG system is superior, its just by chance that they dont really have any really big guys. grandick is bad ass at 242 and 275, and richie briggs is an exceptional bencher in both of those weight classes. i really dont think they have any 308-SHW guys, but i could be wrong.

[obrnpwrlftr]

So do you think it is coincidence that they don't have bigger guys or that the training methods are suited more to each sized person? Don't get me wrong. Westside methods have worked VERY well for the smaller guys as well but I want this discussion to be in general terms.

[Zane G]

i think the training is better regardless. i think they just dont have any bigger guys, call it coincidence or whatever you want.

they are the two best gyms in powerlifting either way you look at it

just my .02

[obrnpwrlftr]

And why do you think BIG's training is better?

[H_M]

does anyone actually have an outline of BIG's training? i'd love to know what they do for squat & deadlift and not just bench.

[Zane G]

And why do you think BIG's training is better?

1. strongest women to ever live.

2. biggest benches in history at 181, 198, and 220

3. 2nd biggest benches ever at 242, and 275

4. biggest totals ever at 181, 198, and 220

5. 3rd highest total ever at 242

6. 4th highest total ever at 275

7. cartinian, heck, frankl, coker, grandick, swanson, briggs, etc.

not to mention how much they have helped other lifters along and I'm sure I'm forgeting some things here.

[MarcusWild]

I haven't found a lot of info about how BIG trains. I think it's similar to Mike Turscherer's training though. Mike just has it more formalized and structured. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but from what I understand:

1. They don't always max, and a lot of it is based on feel. That makes it hard to replicate for yourself, unless you're very in tune with your own body and performance. I don't think you'll ever seem them talk in terms of percentages, reps, and sets. That's just not how it works.

2. They stick more to basic squat, bench, and deadlift training. From what I've seen, they'll use bands but more reverse bands.

3. I think they also focus on not missing any lifts, which is where knowing how you are that day really matters. This is different since a lot of people that train Westside go to failure. I'm not sure if people at Westside actually go to failure a lot.

4. It seems like they vary board heights when benching too. It ranges from a 0.5-2-bd. Start with 2, go lower as the weight gets heavy enough to touch lower boards. Then hit whatever heavy weight at 0.5-1-bd. Then go back up to 2-bd and keep working up as an overload. I wish someone could explain this part better. I've started to try it based on feel. It went:
405 2-bd
455 1-bd
495 full ROM
back to 2-bd and work up

I don't know if that's actually correct or not though. It felt pretty good, so I'm going to keep trying it and mixing in bands/chains with it.

[SELK]

I dont think BIG uses any chains on the bench.

from what ive gathered for their bench training:

day 1
work in shirt to boards, the closer the contest, the lower the boards used.

day 2
reverse band, 2-5 boards, close grip, in a shirt

although it still seems a bit of a mystery for most. likely because they are constantly chaing/going by feel.

[Zane G]

heres where we need al. he's got the inside view

[MarcusWild]

Al has a training log.

http://supertraining.../...=59&start=1

[Zane G]

Al's system isnt all BIG though. Al trains his own SOS way which is a mix fo sheiko/BIG/westside. but he regularly works on his bench at BIG and might be able to delve into what they do a little more than the rest of us as he has first hand experience.

[obrnpwrlftr]

So what about the training makes BIG better? One thought is that the way westside uses bands tends to cause a "grounding effect" for lighter lifters whereas BIG doesn't use them so that isn't a problem. Any other thoughts?

[IdahoRyan]

I dont think BIG uses any chains on the bench.

from what ive gathered for their bench training:

day 1
work in shirt to boards, the closer the contest, the lower the boards used.

day 2
reverse band, 2-5 boards, close grip, in a shirt

although it still seems a bit of a mystery for most. likely because they are constantly chaing/going by feel.

Now the one that shocked me the most was close grip in a shirt. I've never tried to lift in my shirt with anything but a max width and I've never seen anyone do that. do they??

[Zane G]

i think richie briggs mentioned that in an interview he did over at criticalbench.com

[JonRock]

Now the one that shocked me the most was close grip in a shirt. I've never tried to lift in my shirt with anything but a max width and I've never seen anyone do that. do they??

they do

[obrnpwrlftr]

How close of a grip are they using in a shirt?

[MarcusWild]

Brad Heck mentioned it's one hand width in from normal grip. For most people, that'd be pinkies on the rings.

[GeorgeRollins]

Do they do Close-Grips to Boards or full range?

[SELK]

boards with reverse bands by the sounds of things. someone on their message board was saying aim for 250lbs over you best bench (in a shirt).

[H_M]

i was hoping that someone would have some insight into their squat & deadlift training too. thanks for all the info on the bench training though.

i thought, for bench, they went something like:


day 1
heavy raw
shirt (week 1 = 2 bd, week 2 = 1 board, week 3 = chest)
etc.

day 2
shirted 3 bd close grip/ rev bands
etc.

[Zane G]

i can tell you for sure that there is no set template. they do everything by feel and what rick hussey tells them to do. rick calls the weight and the board

they rarely go full range but do go as low as a half board.

they do bench twice a week and they never do any kind of ME raw work.

richie briggs does do 3 and 4 boards with pinkies on the rings in his shirt with reverse bands on his second day. some of the other guys do the same, some do raw boards depending on how they feel.

thas all i know for sure. im sure grandick would be willing to sare more info but i havent seen him on here in a while, and im sure al would also give some more insight into this.

BTW, anyone know how al did today at worlds?

[SELK]

on outlaws someone is saying he bombed on the bench. i hope thats not the case, always sucks bombing out.